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Episode Transcript

Pamir Alpay
Quantum computing gives you an exponentially larger computer power through which you can solve some of the most challenging problems that exist. That’s the, you know, that’s the significant change that will revolutionize how we look at, how we look at some of the most challenging problems that we face.

Tan Deleon
On behalf of the members of the Academy, welcome to this episode of Learning and Living STEMM in Connecticut, the podcast of the Connecticut Academy of Science and Engineering. My name is Tanimu Deleon, I’m an elected member of the Academy and serve as an officer for its governing council. For more information about the academy, visit CTcase.org. Our topic today is QuantumCT, and here to discuss what we should know about it and what is happening in Connecticut is Vice President of Research, Innovation and Entrepreneurship, Board of Trustees Distinguished Professor at the University of Connecticut, Pamir Alpay, and Vice Provost for Research, the William Ziegler, III Professor of Neuroscience and Professor of Ophthalmology and Visual Science at Yale University, Michael Criar. Pamir is also a member of the Academy. Welcome, Pamir and Michael, can you tell us a bit about yourselves? And we will start with Pamir…

Pamir Alpay
Sure… delighted to be with you Tan, and with CASE. I’m a faculty member at UConn for 25 years, I’m a material scientist by training, and over the last 25 years, I’ve had the pleasure of working in different administrative capabilities. In the last three years, I’ve been appointed as the Vice President for Research, Innovation, and Entrepreneurship for the university, and I’m delighted to be here with you and the CASE audience.

Michael Crair
Hi Tan, it’s Mike Crair. It’s wonderful to meet you. I’m very, very happy to tell our audience in Connecticut about QuantumCT. I’m actually a physicist by training, my PhD is in physics, and a neuroscientist, by practice, I’m a faculty member in the Department of Neuroscience, and so I have a laboratory that studies brain development in the context of QuantumCT though, as like Pamir, I’m Vice Provost for Research, and so the Senior Research Officer at the Yale University as Pamir is a Senior Research Officer at UConn. So we have parallel roles at our respective institutions.

Tan Deleon
Fantastic. This is it’s a pleasure to speak with you both and to learn a lot more about QuantumCT today. So, let’s just get right into it. So, so what is QuantumCT?

Pamir Alpay
Let me get started Tan and then Mike, please help me out with this. Okay, QuantumCT is a wonderful collaboration that started off two plus years ago when NSF put together a regional innovation engine effort towards socioeconomic growth through science and technology investment. It was an unprecedented effort by the NSF and they were looking for science and technology ideas to change the socioeconomic structure of a given region. Mike and I got together and started thinking about, what is it that makes Connecticut “Connecticut”, and what are the kind of technologies that we need to push our region forward. And one of the things that were on the top of our list, knowing the strengths of the faculty that we have in both universities as well as the sectors that are around us, was quantum technologies, and how these could help pushing, for example, the defense sector forward, the financial technology sectors, the insurance sector, the biotechnology and pharmaceutical sectors forward because there are unprecedented applications of these, of quantum technologies for each and every one of these sectors that would push our businesses and well being of our state forward. Uh, Mike, I’m sure I missed a lot of things, but please…

Michael Crair
No, no, that was a perfect explanation, Pamir. So Pamir and I have been sort of working quite collaboratively, closely together over the last two years to build QuantumCT. It has been a real pleasure, tremendous pleasure working with Pamir on this and the way you described it is exactly right. NSF has traditionally been a funder of fundamental research. It doesn’t typically fund a lot of efforts in direct translation of that research, but NSF realizes that in order for its funding to have an impact on society, it wants to make sure that whatever discoveries happen in academic laboratories result in products, services, and goods for society. And so their regional innovation engine is an opportunity or effort on their part to identify academic discoveries that can translate into goods and services for society around certain scientific ideas and regions of innovation. So they’re looking for lifting up the economic well-being of a region through the translation of academic discoveries into services and goods for society, in partnership with commercial partners or businesses and in partnership with state or local governments. And that’s exactly what QuantumCT is, as Pamir described, using quantum technologies, identifying quantum technologies, and translating those quantum technologies into applications for society, commercial, etc.

Tan Deleon
Okay, very interesting. Go ahead, Pamir…

Pamir Alpay
So Tan, as we were building this out with Mike, and he applied for a development grant that was two plus years ago, and through that development grant, we established the QuantumCT entity as an organization that will start thinking about all of these ideas and add to it workforce development in quantum technologies, innovation, entrepreneurship and also community engagement across the state. We picked up the state as a huge partner in this effort. DECD came in the Department of Economic and Community Development. Dan O’Keefe, the Commissioner, has been an amazing partner who was intrigued by the idea at first and is fully behind this effort. And then the governor came in, and right now we have both Yale, UConn, and the state, with all its entities, working together to get QuantumCT off the ground. So there has been a lot of excitement around this, not just from the two universities, but also through its implications for the state and the industry around us.

Tan Deleon
Okay, okay, so, yeah, so it’s a huge collaborative effort. That’s, that’s, you know, Connecticut-wide, but could also have potential ramifications nationally as well, right?

Michael Crair
Absolutely.

Tan Deleon
So, yeah, no, that’s, that’s fantastic. Glad we’re we’re at the starting line, and you know, we’re in the race moving forward for Connecticut. So just to ground some of our listeners, like, what are quantum technologies and how do they differ from artificial intelligence?

Pamir Alpay
Let me take the quantum part first, and then I’m going to defer to Mike for artificial intelligence, if you don’t mind, Mike. So, when you look at the world around us, right? So it’s, it’s governed by classical mechanics, right? And when you look at really, really small particles, like atoms and electrons and neutrons, subatomic particles and the atoms themselves, they’re governed by quantum mechanics. So how do you differentiate between these? Classical Mechanics deals with certainties, quantum mechanics deals with probabilities. Essentially, okay. So just to give an example, if I were to stand in front of a wall that’s fairly thick and fairly high, and I’m surrounded by this wall, there is zero chance for me escaping that if I can’t jump across the wall, or if I can, can’t break through the wall, that’s the reality in in classical mechanics that we face every day, for an electron, it’s different. When you look at an electron facing an obstacle that has a huge energy barrier, and it’s thick enough, right? There is a finite probability of finding that electron outside that wall, which is impossible in classical mechanics. So, where do we use it? There are so many applications of this that can be employed. There are tunnel diodes that work as switches in microelectronics. There’s applications in, for example, fusion. There are applications in junctions that can be used in quantum computers for these kind of behavior. These are some of the more recent applications. But when you look at how quantum technologies are used, you see examples in the Global Positioning System, in MRIs, and when you look at it, you can. See applications in lasers in our cell phones. We use quantum technologies in micro electronics on a daily basis. And then when you look at how we can further what quantum technologies can do for us, you enter into the realm of quantum computing, quantum sensors, antennas, and detectors, and also how to navigate in an environment where you have quantum computers as a reality. So that’s what I think of quantum information science and technology. It has implications in devices, in computers, in communications, and also in cybersecurity and cryptography.

Michael Crair
Yeah, that was great, Premier. Beautiful, wonderful explanation. So quantum technologies surround us everywhere right now, lasers and GPS and microelectronics, we look for to accelerate the application of quantum technologies. That’s part of what QuantumCT is and look for transformative applications. And so a transformative application would be quantum computers, which are likely to compute in fundamentally different ways than classical computers. So there are existing applications like lasers and sensors, and there are lots of new applications, emerging and transformative applications, quantum computers, for example. So artificial intelligence is, you know, in significant ways distinct, but in some ways quite complementary to quantum technologies. So artificial intelligence is essentially the application of modern computers to mimic brain behavior for computation and intelligence, and so artificial intelligence uses classical computers to do computations and make predictions about the world using similar dynamics and structure to our brain. So it’s quite distinct from what a quantum computer is, or quantum technologies, but we think, and the evidence suggests, that there are potentially very synergistic interactions between artificial intelligence and quantum computers. So quantum computers can do things complementary to what artificial intelligence applications are about, and potentially have a quite transformative new applications marrying artificial intelligence with quantum computers.

Tan Deleon
Okay, that’s, yeah, that’s a great, great, great description of what it is. So, so if I’m the average resident of Connecticut, like, why should I care about this? Like, what is it going to mean for me as the average resident?

Michael Crair
So I’ll give it a little start, and then I’ll ask Pamir to help. Okay, so there have been several significant, transformative technological changes over the course of the last 100, 150 years. I would say, you know, the invention of the steam engine, the invention of light, microelectronics, and computers. I think quantum technology, in particular, the emergence of quantum computers in the quantum technology realm, has the potential of having a similar transformative effect on society. The technology, the applications that are possible with quantum computers, are quite a real step function above what existing technologies can do. That’s why, you know, our average citizen should be interested, aware of, and looking for the future, and sort of have some knowledge about quantum technologies, because the applications, especially with respect to quantum computers, are potentially transformative in the way society works.

Pamir Alpay
And let me add to that one Tan, Mike, that’s a beautiful description in terms of the stepwise change. And why would that be a stepwise change? It stems from the behavior of how computers work now, right? So they’re essentially work on transistors that are either zero or one, right? So you’re looking at switches either on and off, through which you build a language, a logical language that helps translating our commands to the hardware. Okay? So it’s based on switches being on and off, through which you construct a language for the computer. And the case of quantum computing, you’re not restricted to zeros and ones. You can have anything in between that gives you an exponentially larger computing power through which you can solve some of the most challenging problems that exist. That’s the, you know, that’s the significant change, the stepwise change that Mike talked about, that will revolutionize how we look at, how we look at some of the most challenging problems that we face. These are better, you know, new drug development, new materials development, new materials for energy. And also looking at some of these technologies, you can see that, hey, while we’re increasing our compute power through a revolutionary means, there are also other ways we can, for example, detect a single photon light source from outer space through quantum technologies, you can, you can communicate almost instantaneously over super long distances through quantum technologies. So these are the kind of – these are the kind of revolutions that await us within the next five to 10 years.

Tan Deleon
Oh, wow, so the horizon is really close for this technology, then…

Michael Crair
Yeah, so just to be clear, Tan, you know, we’re using quantum technologies now. Pamir gave a lot of examples, and there are more and emerging examples which we want to leverage and take advantage of, right now, next year, next month, and then over the five or 10 year time horizon, the quantum computing we believe will become a reality with applications which will be truly transformative. And so let me follow up with Pamir’s examples to explain why we think, why the evidence suggests quantum computers are truly transformative. Essentially, fundamentally, quantum computers can perform many computations in parallel. Classical computers do one thing at a time, and the way to do things in parallel is to add more computers. Quantum Computers act in parallel. The elements of the quantum computers act in parallel. So that means that certain problems which were fundamentally impossible to solve because their scale is so huge, become possible to solve with a quantum computer. And again, the specific example… encryption, so a classical encryption technique, RSA, uses the fact that large numbers are very difficult to find the prime primes of so you can get a 16 or 18 digit number and to identify the primes of that number is actually very difficult. It’s an exponentially long time to identify the primes that when you multiply them together and give you that big number. A quantum computer can solve that problem in a short period of time because it can test all the possible combinations of multiples to give you that large number. So it allows you to break encryption codes because of the parallel computation which is intrinsic to a quantum computer. So there are problems which were with a classical computer impossible to solve, which with a quantum computer become almost trivial to solve. And so that means there’s lots of tremendous potential to do new things with a quantum computer which were impossible to do with a classical computer.

Pamir Alpay
Beautiful example, yeah.

Tan Deleon
Okay, yeah, so, let’s pick that thread a bit on that example, because, so, if I’m, if cryptography is protecting, you know, my the data that’s moving around the internet, right, from an encryption perspective, and quantum can easily, as you alluded to, break this cryptography, right? What are some of the steps that you guys are taking going forward to help ensure that nefarious characters around the world are not stockpiling, you know, all this information that’s encrypted now, so that later, when it when the capabilities there, they can easily decrypt it, and, you know, have a field day?

Pamir Alpay
So one of the one of the ideas, as we were presenting quantum computing and other technologies that to the companies around us that came up as a feedback from a partner in the financial sector, okay, how do we keep things safe in the era of quantum computing? And we started hearing this more and more, not just in the financial sector, but folks who are, who are putting together large software and folks that are in the insurance sector that have the obligation to keep the data safe. And there’s an area of research in computer science and computer science and engineering in cryptography that deals specifically with encryption in the Quantum Age. There are several projects that QuantumCT is now running as pilot projects that has our faculty at UConn and Yale working together with these companies to find solutions towards cryptography, keeping things safe – cyber ecurity in when facing a quantum computer.

Tan Deleon
Okay…

Michael Crair
So you can be sure the Defense Department and large manufacturers are aware of the vulnerability of classical cryptography techniques, and there are new standards for encryption which are not vulnerable to a quantum computer. So it’s meant that you’ve had, they’ve had to, and the community has had to establish new encryption technologies which are, at least theoretically, not role vulnerable to a quantum computer. So that’s a direct, immediate application in the commercial world is that our commercial partners need to identify those not vulnerable encryption technologies and use them in their work moving forward, so that they don’t get broken in the future.

Tan Deleon
Okay, okay. So, you hear that, folks, we’re ahead of the game here. We are definitely ahead of the game here. So, just looking back to you, you mentioned earlier about the workforce and workforce development and the initiatives with the state and local municipalities. So what from a workforce perspectivehow is QuantumCT preparing the Connecticut workforce for what’s to come and from a training perspective and other things that we may not even understand at the at the current moment?

Pamir Alpay
So we have an amazing group that started working on this immediately, UConn, Yale faculty, working with our community colleges, working with the state system, and partnering with them in developing curriculum that’s that is specific to K through 12 education, to to education beyond the 12th grade, and also what Mike calls K to gray education, existing workforce coming in and start learning about these technologies. And we’ve made significant progress in the last 24 months. The one of the aspects of that is looking at the curriculum, especially in high school, whether it is sufficient for a Quantum Age, how it can be supplemented through mathematics, statistics, basic physics and chemistry, so that folks are ready for for potential careers in quantum technologies, and that’s just careers, but understanding what these are, at least from a basic level, so that they’re ready for the Quantum Age. Mike…

Michael Crair
Yeah, you don’t, you know, we don’t have to educate. It doesn’t have to be just engineers or a physicists here. We want people to become familiar with this fundamental STEM concepts that they’re comfortable with the terms and in an environment where you know advanced technologies like quantum technologies are commonplace, they shouldn’t be afraid of it, and they should be something that they embrace as part of their everyday life, just like you use a phone or you use GPS, these quantum technologies are similar, but we need to make sure that our community is comfortable with the words and the approaches. Quantum sounds, you know, counterintuitive, but it’s part of our everyday world. We need people to embrace it and understand it as far as possible, to be comfortable incorporating it into their work.

Pamir Alpay
We have a fairly large group that talks to a lot of constituents across the state, in our towns and cities, about what opportunities quantum technologies might bring for new learners as they go through their education. There’s a lot of excitement on that one, because it’s a new area that requires a little bit of different kinds of learning as they move through their path, and it offers significant opportunities in a sector that will be super important. There’s a lot of excitement associated with that.

Tan Deleon
Okay, okay, so the potential for new jobs is also a very big part of this whole process.

Pamir Alpay
Absolutely, absolutely, Tan.

Tan Deleon
Okay. And how is the uptake with because I like the term K through Gray, how’s the uptake with the folks that are already established and, you know, potentially need to re-establish themselves, so to speak, for this forthcoming horizon of quantum?

Pamir Alpay
So the companies in Connecticut are well ahead of the curve. So when we look at our national security sector, the defense sector, the companies that we have around us, the companies in the financial technology sector, insurance and biotech and pharmaceuticals, they are aware of what’s coming, and there has been a significant demand in providing the necessary education for existing workforce. UConn, Yale, and the state system are working on putting together certificate programs for folks working in these companies so that they can get a refresher on technologies that are on the horizon, and get ready for them. We’ve been talking with a lot of the companies around us, and it’s been tremendous in terms of the reception that we have, we have seen through QuantumCT.

Tan Deleon
Okay, no, yeah, I appreciate that, that speaks to, you know, potentially, some things that people are thinking of, because, you know, they, when they hear new technology, they always think, potentially, “Oh, it’s going to take my job,” or potentially I’m going to be, I’m going to be out, out of something, right? It’s going to potentially take something away. But this is adding more value, and potentially, you know, growing the field of opportunity for folks as well. So just switching it, switching the topic a bit, but still kind of staying in line with this. You know, I recently heard D-Wave Quantum CEO, Dr. Alan Barretts, and he was saying that, with respect to, like, the blockchain and cryptocurrency, quantum computing is much more energy efficient than the current methods of hashing and mining today. So this seems very promising for, like, a low-energy computation future and especially with the potential proliferation of AI technologies that you, that we had talked about earlier. Do you think that this is, like quantum, low energy, the whole climate effort, quantum can potentially add value in that regard?

Michael Crair
I think conceptually, it makes sense, but I think the you know, we have to the proof is going to be in the pudding. As we are building quantum computers at scale and with low loss, no/low errors, we’ll learn more about how much energy is required to run these computers at scale. I think what the D-Wave CEO said makes sense, but I think we need, again, the proof is in the pudding. And there are also, to be clear, there are a variety of quantum computing approaches, hardware approaches. So there’s not one. There are several different hardware approaches, and we don’t know which one is going to be best, and it may be different approaches are good for different kinds of questions. And so the exact sort of energy comparison, I think it’s difficult to make right now, until we get them at scale and we understand better what’s the truly merging successful technology or technologies.

Tan Deleon
Okay, all right, thank you for that. So I’m not sure if you guys are aware, but I think you might be. So the Academy has 10 Technical Boards, right? And you know with respect to collaboration, and you know the efforts that you have going on, you know these boards allow members to focus on technical issues of concern to the state, right? So, you know, I’m not sure, again, where you guys are with respect to the collaborative efforts, but there seems to be a potential to tap into these technical boards to assist or complement some of the efforts that you have currently. I’m not sure – any thoughts on that, or have you already spoken to some folks on the technical boards?

Pamir Alpay
So with the president of the Academy, we’ve been engaged with Jeff Orszak, we’ve been engaged in multiple conversations about what quantum technologies are and what how they could change the landscape in science and engineering. First of all, let me say that the Academy is doing such a wonderful job. I’m very proud to be its member, and we’ve been engaging the Academy through many different channels. But one thing that I should say that looking at the technical boards, there are all, almost all of them, would directly benefit from an exposure to what quantum technologies are and how they could benefit. For example, looking at information systems/communications, I’m looking at economic development and education, there are multiple boards, if not all of them, that could, benefit from this kind of an exposure.

Tan Deleon
Okay, no, anything to add. Michael, or…

Michael Crair
Yeah, I think Pamir said it well. I said there are applications of quantum technologies and quantum computers across the board, so probably all of them would benefit from a better awareness about quantum technologies and quantum computing. And then there’s the core sort of quantum technologies, which is a separate, perhaps a separate focus, but the applications are across all of those 10 areas.

Tan Deleon
Okay, all right, yeah, no. Thank you guys, both for that, that makes a lot of sense, and you know, CASE is certainly prepared to assist where necessary. So, so just switching, switching topics a bit here… for some of our younger folks, like this, this podcast is here to, you know, inspire STEM in some of the younger folks in Connecticut. So you know, you know, as successful, successful folks in the field, as yourselves, what sparked your interest in becoming a scientist? Because listening to someone who you know has reached such great heights usually helps to inspire young folks to follow in your footsteps and understand you know what way to go or not to go in order to achieve what you guys have already achieved thus far.

Pamir Alpay
That’s a very good question. Let me get started on this one. And I’m sure Mike, has a may have a different answer on this one. What got me engaged was trying to understand certain phenomena, right? And most of the time, when I was going through my middle school, high school education, moving into college, how things work and what makes them work, what are the kind of principles behind it, was always in the back of my mind. And then through the college education, I started getting into diving deeper into it, which meant more research than just engineering aspects of it. Eventually I transitioned, during my PhD years, into trying to understand the fundamentals underlying certain phenomena and what potential applications could be. That is my progress as a scientist, and it’s, you know, being curious, I think about nature and how things work, was my motivation when I started off in high school.

Michael Crair
So like Pamir, I think fundamentally it’s just trying to figure out how things work, trying to understand how things work, why things work the way they do, how things work. That was my fundamental underlying motivation to become a scientist. But I think on top of that, we’re extremely privileged. I feel extremely privileged to be able to follow my passion, trying to understand how things work, discover how they work, and society rewards me by paying me to discover. So I’m doing what I love to do, what I want to do, and I’m fortunate that I’m paid to do it and can support my family doing it. That’s a wonderful, wonderful privilege to be able to do what I love to do, discover and be paid to do it. And so it’s following my passion, trying to understand how things work. And I’m fortunate that I’m actually paid to do so.

Pamir Alpay
So very well said.

Tan Deleon
Yeah, very, very well said, very well said. Yeah. I mean, that’s, that’s fantastic. So, so just, just rounding this all out, so what’s, what’s next for QuantumCT, what’s the what’s in the hopper for you guys?

Michael Crair
So Pamir, I’m gonna give you this a shot. I just want to point out a pretty unique position that we’re in in the state of Connecticut. We have a wonderful university, the University of Connecticut, with a great training of scientists and engineers. And another university, Yale, which is also outstanding, working together to build a community around a academic topic of great national interest and impact, in collaboration with the state of Connecticut. It’s potential to transform Connecticut, and actually the nation, and the world. And there is a – I like to point out – there’s a precedent for something like this. And forgive me if it sounds empty, but it’s not. There was a little company called Apple, which was founded by two Steves – Steve Wozniak and Steve Jobs – in the Bay Area. Steve Wozniak is a UC Berkeley Engineer,

Tan Deleon
Berkeley!

Michael Crair
Berkeley, wonderful state school. Steve Jobs is typically associated with Stanford, although he didn’t actually get a degree from Stanford, but he’s typically associated with Stanford. They both benefited from the public/private partnership, a great state school, a great private school that birthed Silicon Valley and gave rise to Apple and many other companies. I think we have that opportunity here in Connecticut, between UConn and Yale to give birth to a whole transformative new enterprise, or a new industry around quantum technologies and quantum computing. And this collaboration between Yale and UConn, I think, is the this QuantumCT collaboration is an important step in that pathway, and we’re getting wonderful support from the state of Connecticut to do it. It’s great to be in a state where the leader, the leadership, recognizes the importance of the collaboration between UConn and Yale, and the role the state can have to facilitate that collaboration in this QuantumCT effort.

Pamir Alpay
That’s so beautifully said, Mike, and I also echo the shout out to our governor, who’s been behind this from the get-go, and the commissioner of DECD, Dan O’Keefe, who’s been a wonderful supporter himself. So that’s the kind of environment that we want to create here in the state through which we see development, economic development through science, through science and technology.

Tan Deleon
No, that’s so well said. And, a great analogy to Apple.

Pamir Alpay
Beautiful.

Tan Deleon
Perfectly makes sense. And, you know, brings everything full circle to show that you know, Connecticut is ripe, ripe for this to burst onto the scene here. So you know, let’s make it happen. Like let’s, let’s definitely make it happen. So, on behalf of all of us living in Connecticut and others tuning in from other states, thank you, Pamir and Michael, for sharing information about QuantumCT. You’ve given us a lot to think about.

Pamir Alpay
Thank you, Tan.

Michael Crair
Pleasure. Thank you so much.

Pamir Alpay
Thank you.

Tan Deleon
Listeners, I encourage you to subscribe to this podcast on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music or YouTube, and visit the Academy website at CTcase.org to learn more about our guests, read the episode transcript, and access additional resources, as well as to sign up for the CASE Bulletin. Thanks again Pamir and Michael, this has been a tremendous conversation. I really appreciate it.

Pamir Alpay
It’s a pleasure. Thank you.

Michael Crair
Thank you, Tan.