Episode Transcript

Seema Alim
These systems are complex. They exist as a system of systems and they are all interdependent, they are interconnected, and we need to be integrating and optimizing them through the use of AI, through ICT, and doing that across the lifecycle of these different programs and projects.

Tan Deleon
On behalf of the members of the Connecticut Academy of Science and Engineering, welcome to this episode of Learning and Living STEMM in Connecticut, the podcast of the Connecticut Academy of Science and Engineering. My name is Tanimu Deleon, I’m an elected member of the Academy and serve on its Governing Council. For more information about the academy please visit www.ctcase.org. I’m pleased to have as our guest Seema Alom a CASE Science and Technology Policy Fellow at the Connecticut Department of Energy and Environmental Protection (DEEP) for 2022 through 2024. We’ll be talking about the fellowship scope and opportunities, and a little bit about Seema’s path to and through this fellowship. Welcome Seema, can you share a bit about yourself?

Seema Alim
Good evening, and thank you, Tan. Thank you for inviting me to this podcast, and of course, I’m delighted to share with you my professional journey leading up to this fellowship. I started as a structural engineer, but a few years into that I decided I needed to go back and get a PhD. So when I got back to the Imperial College campus in London, I realized that the – I’m dating myself – but I realized that the Japanese 5th Generation Computer Project and AI was all the buzz. So I thought, hmm, this is a good time to change my focus. So I joined the engineering systems department to look at AI applications of civil engineering problems. So really looking at various logic models that best replicate how a human expert thinks and reasons. So this multidisciplinary PhD was a lot of fun, but as you know, AI solutions and software were a little bit more primitive back then, and so were the job opportunities – not as what they are today. So I went back to my consulting roots, but this time due to structural design, I started implementing infrastructure programs. And during all of this, I tried to keep and maintain my academic and research ties as a fellow at the Imperial College and as a member of a expert advisory board of a multidisciplinary policy research group that had been set up by the UK Government, it was called i-BUILD. And then somewhere along the line, I was given the opportunity to join the government of the late Benazir Bhutto of Pakistan, the then Prime Minister, and I served six years as a heading her program on Office for Infrastructure Projects, those that were politically important to her or those that are of national significance, and mostly in power and energy sectors. After that, again, back to my consulting roots but this time in the US and managing global programs in the US, Canada, and the MENA region (MENA is an acronym that refers to the Middle East and North Africa, comprised of the following countries: Algeria, Bahrain, Egypt, Iran, Iraq, Israel, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Morocco, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Tunisia, United Arab Emirates, Palestine, and Yemen). Some of these programs are particularly instrumental in moving me in the direction of climate resilience and looking at infrastructure as a system of systems and then the policy implications of development. And that’s when I moved on to serve as the USAID as an International Policy Fellow and now finally here at CASE helping me to further that interest a little bit. So yes, that’s my journey. It sounds a bit chaotic and all over the place and continents, but it has been rewarding. And fun.

Tan Deleon
Yeah. So that’s, yeah, that’s quite the journey and, and really, it’s, you know, people are always looking at the destination, but really, it’s truly about the journey. That’s the most important thing. That’s where that’s what the character develops. And that’s that’s how you come into your own, so to speak.

Seema Alim
Exactly, yes. Yes, I guess there’s some method to the chaos and madness.

Tan Deleon
Now there certainly is, I mean, because you’re here and we’re very, we’re very fortunate to have you as a CASE-DEEP Fellow.

Seema Alim
Thank you very much. I appreciate that.

Tan Deleon
Absolutely.

Seema Alim
I enjoyed it as much.

Tan Deleon
Yeah, you are absolutely welcome. So speaking about the CASE-DEEP fellowship, can you please tell us about the Fellowship with like, what’s the scope? And other details, please?

Seema Alim
Oh, absolutely. The CASE Fellowship is, at least for me, I mean, it changes its focus from fellow to fellow I guess, or for the purposes. But for me, it was designed to support building decarbonization. Started in May of 2022. It’s almost coming to a close. The Fellowship obviously had some specific scope and goals for the Fellow that really were intended to support building decarbonization. But this Fellowship also encourages the Fellows to create their own path for professional development. So just I too, was assigned some specific tasks as a Fellow and also allowed the feasibility to look for related opportunities for building decarbonization, as well as for professional development.

Tan Deleon
Okay, wow. Okay. Yeah, so yeah, the scope would definitely be specific to the Fellow and building decarbonization, I mean, obviously, with the climate impact, it’s, it’s a big deal. And it’s a tough, tough nut to crack, so to speak. And there’s definitely a lot to glean from it. So all of us are concerned with climate change, right? And we do understand the need for reducing our carbon footprint, but why this specific focus of this fellowship on building decarbonization – specific approaches to decarb?

Seema Alim
Well, that’s a great question because you know, you’re right, decarbonization is not just about building, it’s about everything that we do. But building and transport sectors are the two big sources of carbon emissions anywhere in the world, not just Connecticut. So buildings in general contribute anywhere from 25% to 30% of all greenhouse gas emissions. And that’s pretty much across the board. And so I think, for Connecticut, it’s about 30%, which therefore, it makes sense that you would want to target building decarbonization as your target. But there’s also another reason – Connecticut DEEP is responsible for overseeing Connecticut’s greenhouse gas emission goals, which are mandated by the Global Warming Solutions Act of 2008, which has set some interim targets but also requires that by 2050, they achieve 80% below the 2001 emission levels. So to achieve these goals, DEEP obviously focuses on decarbonization of different sectors, but most importantly, building and transportation. And it does that through various state initiatives. Some of the specific things that Connecticut does are, for example, its Home Energy Solutions Program, which is really an incentive program under its conservation and load management program has been administered by utilities and funded mostly through a user surcharge for funding it. It also focuses on other things like benchmarking labeling, which is a very important thing. It’s got there actually has a mandated weatherization target. The DEEP focus and Connecticut in general focuses on public awareness, trying to build on changing its energy efficiency codes. So there’s just a lot of things including, of course, replacing oil and gas equipment with more energy-efficient equipment, particularly for HVAC systems. It has for years focused on lighting and other other household appliances and equipment. So yes, that’s kind of why the focus on buildings more than other things.

Tan Deleon
Okay, so there’s this, so I’m assuming the LEED certification that that some of these buildings have, is that part of the whole, does that encompass decarbonization as well? Or does it encompass like more than just decarbonization with respect to how to get the certifications?

Seema Alim
So the certifications really kind of fall into more of the labeling.

Tan Deleon
Okay.

Seema Alim
You know, because what one is trying to do is to encourage – in different ways – encourage energy-efficient buildings. LEED (Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design) is one such certification that says that your building has been designed to be energy efficient. Now, what’s the purpose of that, I mean, other than carrying a label that you are LEED certified? The hope is that at some point, these types of labels, whether it’s a LEED certification, or whether it is a Department of Energy (DOE) attributed home energy score, of sorts, or some other, you know, state-specific label or any of those things, that that label is recognized in, in real estate transactions. So just as you would say that, you know, I’ve made all of these upgrades to my kitchen, whatever, and that’s why or I’ve just changed the roof. And so my value is up, I have this LEED certification for my property, it is energy efficient. Or I have a DOE score/home energy score of such and such, which is, which happened to be one of the tasks assigned to me for this specific decarbonization thing is valuing energy.

Tan Deleon
Okay, were there other tasks beyond that, that you’d like to speak on?

Seema Alim
Yeah, so this was, yeah, sure. This was one of the tests. So what we tried to do is, this has many parts to it, but as part of this fellowship, we had to organize first the training of real estate professionals, appraisers, and so on. So we did several training programs to help them get on board with the idea that this shouldn’t be a part of energy efficiency, this should be an attribute that should be valued in real estate transactions. So that was one of the first things – that training and then of course, the other part of it, which was not precisely the scope of this fellowship, is to get this into the MLS system as part of the attributes of a home. The other part was the voluntary benchmarking of commercial and industrial buildings. So not focusing so much on municipal, which may fall into commercial or industrial, but looking at the smaller C & I (commercial and industrial) enterprises and trying to have them voluntarily come up and do the ENERGY STAR Portfolio Manager for their scores. To do this, we tried to get students and interns because they don’t have, obviously, the smaller firms do not have the capacity to do so, so to bring those people on board and try to help them do that, to help them put all of their data into this portfolio manager.

Tan Deleon
Oh, okay.

Seema Alim
And then there were some flexible tasks as well that, you know, were part of the –

Tan Deleon
Flexible as in?

Seema Alim
As in looking for opportunities.

Tan Deleon
Oh, okay.

Seema Alim
You know, yeah, we’ll take your own…

Tan Deleon
Okay, so what were those opportunities for the fellowship?

Seema Alim
So yeah, they were they, one of them, which was kind of exciting, just fell into my lap, and in a way, it was this CDECCA (Capitol District Energy Center Cogeneration Associates) power plant in Hartford, that was built in 1988 as a cogeneration 62-megawatt unit, and then it was destroyed in August 2021 or something, and then the state decided to purchase this. And for some strange reason, someone gave me that paper to look at, for some other reason. And I thought, as I tried to understand what this thing was the lightbulb moment there was that this plant was connecting most of the state buildings in the capital area, and some private buildings through a heating and cooling three-mile-long loop of pipeline. And that kind of meant that you know, it was almost like, already designed for a geothermal district/geothermal system, right? And or some kind of other renewable energy source that could be used to connect that. And then I thought, oh, what a good example for lead by example, type for the government to kind of – state government – take that. And so I started talking to colleagues a DEEP, and then they thought about the idea but the buildings were with the Department of Administrative Services (DAS) – the plant. So then we started talking to DAS, and then they were, you know, they got finally on board, and they did a study that’s just been completed, to what, you know, because obviously, it’s good to have this vision and idea, but what’s the practical reality of actually doing that to some of the very old buildings, and whether those what it takes to upgrade both ends. I mean, not just the plant and create this geothermal, but also can the other side of the equation, take up those temperatures and become really energy efficient. That is one of the opportunities. There’s also been this thing about the labeling legislation, and you may have heard that it’s been coming up for several years,

Tan Deleon
I have not, so if you don’t mind expanding, that’d be that’d be great.

Seema Alim
Yes. So there was a, there was a move at DEEP for a few years, that they wanted to do a state-specific label – energy label. And it was going to emulate something that Vermont, Montpellier, Vermont has done now. So this came, I started looking at it, and I did some research, and I realized that over the years, while Connecticut has actually always through its Home Energy Solutions Programs, stayed with the Home Energy scores from DOE, it was now kind of leaving that to one side and moving to something which was suitable for a much smaller city, not a statewide application. And so it was already far ahead, and was kind of thinking of moving to a different, easier something that was reliant on the homeowner to do. But if you’re going to on the one hand value, energy efficiency, and want to become a decision criterion in say, mortgage decisions, you don’t want a small, local, less credible label. You want something that is nationally accepted. And that’s what all other states we’re now moving towards. So I kind of brought that up when I try to advocate for the fact that we need to stay with where we are and not move in that direction. And so I think this year, they did not put that legislation.

Tan Deleon
Okay, so we’re gonna stick with a national label, as opposed to doing something more more local to Connecticut. Yeah, I mean, that definitely makes that makes a lot of sense. It’s very logical. And to your point earlier about, you know, making sure real estate agents are able to get the value from the updates into the MLS system. I mean, it just bodes nicely with having a label that is a national label, as opposed to something more things more drastic. So kudos to you for that.

Seema Alim
Thank you. Well, I don’t know. But you know, to me, it made sense that, even though that home energy score isn’t the perfect label, by any means, but one that is supported nationally, and they have the resources, the DOE to improve it, as opposed to having Connecticut come up with its own label, and then maintain it and show that it’s credible, and all of that is kind of unnecessary, it seems to me so.

Tan Deleon
Yeah. And that seems to me like it would also help if they start doing like tax credits or something like you know, how they’re doing the tax credits for the electric cars. It would make more sense if you were in line with the national level, because if they did do some type of home incentive tax credit, then you don’t have to have an explanation as to what your label means compared to the DOE.

Seema Alim
Exactly. And that was my point to exactly that. You know, even if it’s not perfect. It’s what everybody else is using. So you don’t want to get fall out of line – stay in the queue.

Tan Deleon
No, that makes a lot of sense. It definitely makes a lot of sense. So switching slants a bit. What avenues of professional development were available to you do this fellowship?

Seema Alim
Well, there’s a lot of encouragement for me right from the beginning that hey, develop your plan, whatever is available, you know, whatever is possible within the funding sources, we are willing to have you do that. And so of course, the usual – the conferences and trainings were all open to me, which I did avail some. But I think one of the things that I pointed out was that, you know, what would be of interest to me is to look, because right before this, I finished the USAID fellowship, and I, and I’ve always been involved in international work. So I thought, the best thing to do would be to combine everything that was learned of the energy efficiency programs that have been done in Connecticut and in the Northeast in general and see how we can design a program implementation manual, or something like that, for the stepwise implementation plan for, you know, other international countries. So I think that what my report was called, “The Design of Energy Efficiency Programs for Low Tariff, Limited Regulatory, Financial, and Technical Capacity Environments,” and they think the long name, but that’s what you know, that’s how the USAID likes to, to kind of design its systems for those countries. And that’s, that was something that I worked with USAID on to identify where their problems were, and to see what barriers they faced, and how they could use what was done. As such, not every program would be applicable, obviously. But the strategies are the same. Like for example, if you look at some of the USAID programs, now they say, well, okay, India is not an example. It’s very well developed, etc. But if you look into the history, well, about 20 years ago, USAID helped to put in place the governance structure, the policies, and goals that have brought them to the point where they can actually implement and help others implement. So no reason why we can’t follow those same steps for other developing countries and help them through a step-by-step approach.

Tan Deleon
Yeah, now, certainly, certainly, you mentioned when you first started your discussion, that you availed yourself of some of these conferences. Did you go? Anything of interest come to mind? Or, or any, place?

Seema Alim
Yes, there was a DOE Conference, which was very useful in kind of helping me actually validate the assumptions on labeling, for example. A lot of people were presenting, and it made me feel like, okay, I’m not the one-off person thinking that the DOE or a national score is a good thing. And then recently did the Innovations in Climate Resilience, another interesting conference. So yeah, there were a couple of those.

Tan Deleon
Yeah, no. Okay. So yeah, that definitely, that’s a very good conference to go to, since it made the link to one of the most important things that you were able to provide the CT DEEP system. So, you mentioned the infrastructure as a system of systems. Was there any aspect of your work or policy fellowship experience that changed your approach to infrastructure implementation?

Seema Alim
Yes, great question, then not quite that simple to answer.

Tan Deleon
Okay.

Seema Alim
But, as you know, through different programs, and as I said, most of the programs that I worked on were infrastructure-related. So city-wide wastewater, or flooding control systems, or energy systems, it was a shot home that these systems are complex. They exist as a system of systems and they are all interdependent, they are interconnected, and we need to be integrating and optimizing them through the use of AI (artificial intelligence), through ICT (information and communication technology). And doing that across the lifecycle of these different programs and projects. But the two programs that I think kind of really brought home that message were the repairs of the end restructure after Hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans and the master city which was planned as the world’s first planned carbon-neutral city near Abu Dhabi. So basically with Katrina, it was, you know, I’d been working there before on their wastewater systems, roads, highways – and suddenly one breach in the flood wall. So in the entire infrastructure network, that one breach, really, years and years of infiltration and inflow reduction into the wastewater system, for example, is wiped out because now everything is underwater. You know, you’re doing this basin by basin by basin, and then suddenly, everything is completely wiped off, you know. S that was quite an important lesson. And of course, the things that we were doing, to destroy the wetlands and go nearer and nearer the water. Building homes and things and destroying those natural barriers. That was one important lesson learned that, okay, we have adaptation, but we’ve also got these mitigation strategies that we need to be worrying about for infrastructure, and that it’s all interconnected, all be destroyed. So that was one lesson, but then Masdar, they have all of this in terms of water, energy, transport, everything. So if you tried to have different kinds of transport that were dependent on electric vehicles, or your energy system demands went up. Or because it’s hot over there, and you have HVAC systems that were taking up a great deal of the energy, so to achieve carbon neutrality, across all of these systems, was quite complex. And my role was to really, basically manage that to have that designed so that all systems are looked at together. And at the end, we are at zero carbon, which was kind of tough, because when you’re starting a project, you often use temporary power generators and whatnot, and that takes your carbon emissions up of the roof. And, and we were measuring it right from the construction phases. So those were the two that really brought home the message of why it’s a system of systems and why we need to be doing things or thinking about things a little bit differently.

Tan Deleon
Yeah, no, that definitely makes a lot of sense. I mean, if you look at things in isolation, then you don’t realize the interconnectedness, and then you miss the opportunities, from those interconnectedness to optimize, you know, the system writ large, right?

Seema Alim
Exactly.

Tan Deleon
And just thinking about when you mentioned the wetlands, like the Netherlands, that’s, that’s a lot of what they do. Because that’s how they were able to reclaim a lot of their land back, right? And it, I mean, it, we, we take it for granted, but, you know, the earth has, has a way of balancing everything, and then it does it for a reason. So, you know, there isn’t a wetland just for the sake of having it, it’s there, it’s there to serve a purpose. So…

Seema Alim
So right. I mean, you brought up the Netherlands and everybody after Katrina – from the politicians, the technocrats – everyone was running to the Netherlands to learn lessons…

Tan Deleon
I mean, yeah, they, they, they’ve been very successful. And, you know, they’ve, they’ve done a good job, you know, and so it’s, don’t try to reinvent the wheel, like, you know, learn, learn from some people that are doing it right, so. That’s quite the accomplishment for this Fellowship, and a lot of good, good information, that you’ve provided. So let’s, let’s find out just a bit more about, like some of the things that you like to do. So, you know, besides, it seems like travel is something that you like to do. You’ve as you mentioned earlier, you’ve pretty much gone and gone around the world practically. Is there anything or anything else you’d like to do for fun?

Seema Alim
That’s a very difficult question so I admit that I am a bit of a workaholic and travel is fun, but, when I do actually you know, I’m not traveling or whatever, I do like to watch things that have to do with travel, like travel shows or cooking shows or, or things like that. But you know, I think the ones I most enjoy are the History Channel ones, which are kind of the shows that take you through the historic travel and trade routes. And these sort of put so much into the context of what we have today as our socioeconomic, political, religious landscape, where it will, you know, how it all must, has evolved in through those that travel. How different cultures, different religions – everything is the same stories, how did they come about, I mean, apart from divine intervention, I would say, but it’s so logical, where people traveled, how they traveled, what they learned, and how they adapted over the years. So, so that’s kind of always fascinating for me, ya know?

Tan Deleon
Yeah, I think I’ve seen a couple of those History Channel shows, and yeah, they are very informative. And you do you do get a sense of, you know, the history and how that history connects to the present day. And, you know, a lot of the reasons why things are kind of the way they are, right? And you’ll always wonder, like, why is that that way? And then you realize it’s, it’s something that happened I don’t know, a hundred or two hundred years ago, and, or even longer, long, long before that. And that’s the reason why that that that is so it’s a history history is always speaking to us, I guess, right?

Seema Alim
Yes, absolutely.

Tan Deleon
So yeah, definitely. So if someone younger was watching your career path, what could they learn? And what advice would you give them in moving in potentially the same route that you have gone? Like, what lessons learned would you potentially give someone?

Seema Alim
So if you said, going the same route? Well, they’ve been, let me just say that there are some positives and negatives of following that path. But, yes, like I started off by saying, it sounds chaotic. So yes it’s not very linear and smooth. But there’s some pattern in there if you have a desire to always learn something new, which then adds value to your ability to function within whatever domain you choose. So for example, learning about energy, and efficiencies, just adds to my understanding of dealing with infrastructure as a system of systems and all of the interdependencies that I’ve described. So I think that one of the things we should never sort of shirk from is it, it may seem at times that this is so unrelated, I mean, we’re doing water or transit or whatever, why would you suddenly want to be in energy efficiency, but there is something to learn from that. And, you know, things don’t necessarily need to have an immediate impact on your career, but they’ll just stay in the back of your mind, and they’ll help you. Also, I guess, something that may be a pattern in my life may have may be being able to be tenacious, and resilient. So like everybody else, everybody’s career, you know, some people may be lucky. But in general, we do go through career and life shocks, no matter how well things are going, things change. I moved countries that had changes because maybe there was a change of government, or changed companies because there was a merger or acquisition, or because there was a hurricane and maybe I had to move from New Orleans. So all of these shocks, we kind of need to understand that they, one or all of them, can happen to people or others. So we have to have that attitude of being able to just keep moving forward and the key is to be able to survive those. I said there were some negatives, too, and I think that that is that if you on the face of it it may seem like you’re doing a lot of this travel and it’s all fun, and it is, but when you do a lot of that kind of work you do lose your roots and your network, which is also very important for survival. So you’ve got to be conscious of that, that if you’re moving around too much, and you’re not in the same place, it can have some negative impacts because you now don’t have that continuity of relationships that you develop at work or where you live socially, and so on and so forth. So, yeah, that’s probably what I’d say.

Tan Deleon
No, that’s, that’s really, really good advice. And, and I think our young listeners will definitely have a lot of good things to take from those comments. And I actually, you know, one thing that that kind of common thread was, you know, it’s adaptation, like being able to adapt to, to what happens right? To the environment that you’re afforded, or the shock as you as you used it, the shock that comes your way, you know, being able to adapt and, and, you know navigate around it and continue on, you’re on your path, or maybe you deviate a bit, but then you come back in another way. So it seems like it’s chaotic, but technically, you’re still going in a linear direction, it’s just, that you just have to know how to navigate those things that come into your path. So, thank you for that.

Seema Alim
Thank you very much.

Tan Deleon
So with that, I would like to thank our guest, Seema Alim It has been an absolute pleasure, Seema, thank you so much.

Seema Alim
Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I’ve enjoyed talking to you.

Tan Deleon
I encourage you to subscribe to this podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube, and visit the Academy’s website at www.ctcase.org to learn more about our guest, read the episode transcripts, and access additional resources, as well as sign up for the CASE Bulletin. Seema, thank you so much. This has been a tremendous opportunity for me to learn so much about what you’ve done for our great state.

Seema Alim
Thank you so much for the opportunity from CASE to begin with, and also for today. Thank you.